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مصاحبه آقای کروبی با فارس

مصاحبه آقای کروبی با فارس و انعکاس گسترده مصاحبه در روزنامه ها و سایت های وابسته به جناح مقابل اصلاحات، و البته بعضی روزنامه های اصلاح طلب که نفهمیدم چرا با این آب و تاب این مصاحبه رو منتشر کردند! بنظرم بیشتر کار رسانه ای فارس بود و پرداخت صحبت های آقای کروبی که خود بچه های اعتماد ملی هم می گفتند جاهایی رو که قرار بوده فقط خبرنگار شنونده باشد و نه منعکس کننده در متن خبر آمده بود. به هرحال آقای کروبی انتقاداتی دارد مثل دیگر اصلاح طلبان که از عملکرد خود و دیگران در مجموعه اصلاح طلبی انتقاد دارند. جوانان احزاب شامل اصلاح طلبان و موتلفه چندی است که در غالب یک هم اندیشی دورهم جمع می شویم و ضمن اینکه انتقاداتی هم به یکدیگر داریم سعی می کنیم موضوعات را بین خودمان به بحث و بررسی بگذاریم و راه حل هایی پیدا کنیم برای ادامه راه که به اذعان همه دوستان تابحال مفید بوده. جالب است که در ملاقات مان با آقای کروبی ایشان چند بار همه را به داشتن حوصله و سعه صدر نصیحت کردند. دیروز از رادیو دویچه وله تماس گرفتند که در مورد مصاحبه آقای کروبی بپرسند من هم پاسخ دادم . متن کامل را در ادامه می آورم.

دویچه‌وله: انگیزه‌ی آقای کروبی از طرح انتقاداتی به جبهه‌ی دوم خرداد و اعلام این که هنوز مسایل پشت‌پرده‌ی بسیار هست که ایشان افشا خواهند کرد چیست؟

شهاب‌الدین طباطبایی: من در ابتدا یک بحث کلی بکنم. من فکر می‌کنم این یک سوءتفاهم باشد. یعنی در شرایطی که لزوم گفت‌وگو تعامل احزاب با همدیگر، حتا احزاب محافظه‌کار را با توجه به اوضاع و احوال کنونی کشور ما برای خودمان ضروری می‌دانیم، فکر نمی‌کنم کسی از بزرگان اصلاح‌طلب راضی بشود که حتا احساس شکاف در میان جبهه‌ی اصلاح‌طلبان بوجود بیاید. من فکر می‌کنم آنچه به عنوان صحبت‌های آقای کروبی در خبرگزاری فارس منعکس شده است، چیزهایی بوده که خبرگزاری فارس علاقه به برداشت از سخنان آقای کروبی داشته است و من با تاکید معتقدم که این مصاحبه انعکاس واقعی سخنان آقای کروبی نبوده.

ولی مصاحبه به چاپ رسیده، پخش شده، انتشار پیدا کرده است و حتا اگر بخشی از سخنان آقای کروبی هم باشد جایی برای شبهه باقی نمی‌گذارد که ایشان، جبهه‌ی دوم خرداد، اصلاح‌طلبان و کل ائتلافی را که به نظر می‌آمد به آن تعلق داشته باشند را حتی مورد تمسخر قرار داده‌اند.

به هرحال اختلاف‌نظر و دیدگاه وجود دارد که اصلا لازمه‌ی کار حزبی و اساس جامعه‌ی چندصدایی و متکثر که بهرحال از دوم خرداد این بحث‌اش بوجود آمد، درهرحال اساس آن جامعه‌ی چندصدایی همین اختلاف‌نظرها است. ممکن است بیان این اختلاف‌نظرها گاهی اوقات از زبان افراد مختلف شکل‌های متفاوتی هم به خودش بگیرد. ادبیات آقای خاتمی حتما با ادبیات آقای کروبی و ادبیات آقای کروبی حتما با ادبیات آقای بهزاد نبوی متفاوت است و این هم درهرحال جزو خصوصیات هر انسانی است و خیلی نمی‌شود کاریش کرد. به هرحال من معتقدم که آقای کروبی در بخشی انتقاداتی دارند و همان طور که دیگر اصلاح‌طلبان هم بعضی مواقع از دیدگاه آقای کروبی. این یک چیز طبیعی‌ست و همه‌ی ما به هرحال باهم اختلاف نظر و سلیقه داریم و البته شاید بهتر باشد که این‌ها درون جناحی و داخل مجموع اصلاح‌طلبان مطرح و بررسی بشود و آقای کروبی هم تا به حال همین جور عمل می‌کردند. بازهم می‌گویم احساس من این است که خبرگزاری فارس کمی در انعکاس صحبت‌های آقای کروبی آن چیزهایی را که دلش می‌خواسته مطرح کرده است بیشتر و البته انتقادات آقای کروبی هم آنجا طرح شده بود. من معتقدم ائتلاف اصلاح‌طلبان حتمی است، همانطور که در انتخاب شوراها هم اتفاق افتاد. شما یادتان هست، آنموقع هم از قول آقای کروبی حرف‌هایی زده می‌شد، یا به هرحال موضع‌گیریی‌هایی که دوستان و مخصوصا آقای کروبی و نزدیکانش می‌کردند، اما به هرحال در انتخابات شوراها ائتلاف همه جانبه‌ی اصلاح‌طلبان اتفاق افتاد. آنروزها هم برداشت‌های مغرضانه از سخنان و موضع‌گیری‌های بزرگان اصلاح‌طلب منعکس می‌شد.

آقای طباطبایی، معمولا وقتی چنین مسایلی پیش می‌آید، همه ازهم می‌پرسند پشت قضیه چه خوابیده است؟ همین سوال را من از شما دارم.

همین که می‌گوییم ائتلاف قطعی‌ست، من احساسم این است که پشت این قضیه واقعا چیزی نخوابیده است، پشت این قضیه این است که آقای کروبی به هرحال کمی دلخوری و انتقاداتی دارند. بازهم تاکید می‌کنم، همان طوری که دیگران هم ممکن است به آقای کروبی در درون جبهه‌ی اصلاحات انتقاداتی یا دلخوری‌هایی داشته باشند.

آیا این دلخوری‌ها هنوز از انتخابات سال ۸۴ بجا مانده است؟

به هرحال دیدید که در آن صحبت‌هایی که شده بود، یک بخش‌اش مربوط به سال ۸۴ می‌شود، یک بخش‌اش هم مربوط به انتخابات مجلس ششم می‌شود. همان طور که آقای کروبی انتقاداتی دارند، اصلاح‌طلبان دیگر هم صحبت‌هایی دارند. اما... حالا توی شرایط عادی همه‌ی اینها هم قابل حل بوده، چون نزدیک انتخابات هستیم، شاید کمی حساسیت این صحبت‌ها بیشتر شده...

به انتخابات اشاره کردید. آیا سخنان آقای کروبی به‌جای این که شانس‌شان را در انتخابات بالا ببرد، باعث نمی‌شود اعتماد بخشی از جامعه به ایشان سلب بشود، به‌ويژه اصلاح‌طلبان؟

این اظهارنظرها و انتقادات از دید من حق هر انسانی‌ست که انتقاد بکند و اظهارنظر بکند، اما همیشه باید به هرحال شرایط زمانی و موقعیتی را هم که در آن قرار گرفته‌ایم مدنظر داشته باشند. به نظر من، بازهم می‌گویم، بازهم احساسم این است که هیچ عقل سلیمی نمی‌پذیرذ که هر روز اصلاح‌طلبان مورد حمله و تهدید قرار می‌گیرند، آقای کروبی به عنوان یکی از کسانی که در شکل‌گیری جنبش اصلاح‌طلبی نقش داشته رضایت بدهد که با انعکاس مخدوش صحبت‌هایشان به چهره‌ی اصلاح‌طلبان خراشی بیفتد و من معتقدم آقای کروبی این را به گونه‌ای اصلاح می‌کنند. اما هر حرفی در موقعیتی حساس، مخصوصا اگر زده بشود، اثرات خودش را دارد و به هرحال این هم درست نیست.

آقای کروبی گفته‌اند که هنوز مسایل زیادی هست که ایشان در آستانه‌ی انتخابات مجلس هشتم روشن خواهند کرد. اینها چه مسایلی می‌تواند باشد؟

اینها را باید از خودشان بپرسید، ما هم نمی‌دانیم موضوعاتی را که ایشان می‌خواهند روشن کنند. من فکر می‌کنم یک بخش‌اش، اگر آقای کروبی بخواهند به واقعیات اشاره بکنند، بحث رد صلاحیت‌‌های گسترده‌ای است که در انتخابات مجلس هفتم اتفاق افتاده است و احتمالا آقای کروبی بخواهند انتقاداتی را به آن رد صلاحیت‌ها وارد کنند. این چیزی‌ست که به ذهن من می‌رسد.

این رد صلاحیت‌ها ولی نمی‌تواند انتقاد به اصلاح‌طلبان را دربرداشته باشد!

آقای کروبی نگفته‌اند انتقاد از اصلاح‌طلبان می‌کنند و مجموعه‌ای از صحبت‌ها را گفته‌اند که می‌کنند که من فکر می‌کنم محور اصلی آن صحبت‌شان در آستانه‌ی انتخابات مجلس هشتم همین رد صلاحیت‌ها و اعلام موضع‌ ایشان است راجع به رد صلاحیت‌ها که در هرحال اساس دموکراسی و میزان رای ملت است را مخدوش می‌کند در جمهوری اسلامی.

تا آنجایی که من از صحبت‌های شما متوجه شدم، حرف‌های آقای کروبی نمی‌تواند هیچ گونه نفاقی را بین اصلاح‌طلبان بیندازد و یک عده را بعنوان تندرو حذف بکند و یک عده را بعنوان کندرو به جناح اصولگرا بیشتر نزدیک بکند، برای این که شانس بیشتری در انتخابات داشته باشند. درست صحبت شما را متوجه شدم؟

بگذارید این گونه بگویم، من معتقدم که آقای کروبی چون نیت‌شان این نیست که اختلاف بیندازند بین اصلاح‌طلبان حتما از صحبت‌های ایشان هم چنین چیزی اتفاق نمی‌افتد و امیدواریم که اینها بعنوان نقدهای درون جناحی تلقی بشود که من به شما بگویم که اگر امروز جناح مقابل هم تلاش می‌کند چهره‌ای متحد و یکدست از خودش نشان بدهد، هر روز شاهد بروز نشانه‌هایی از اختلاف عمیق بین جناح مقابل هم هستیم که البته به روشهای مختلف تشکیلاتی این را بروز و نشان نمی‌دهند. ما معتقدیم آن اختلافات و ریشه‌های عمیق اختلافی میان اصلاح‌طلبان وجود ندارد. انتقادات مقطعی هم که آقای کروبی مخصوصا مطرح می‌کنند خیلی به اصل و ریشه‌ی اصلاح‌طلبان لطمه‌ای وارد نمی‌کند.

آقای کروبی گفته‌اند، یکی از اشکالات عمده‌ی دوران اصلاحات حضور بیش از اندازه‌ی نیروهای جوان بوده است. شما به عنوان رئیس شاخه‌ی جوانان حزب مشارکت در این مورد چه می‌گویید؟

من فکر می‌کنم آقای کروبی منظورشان از جوان به هرحال بی‌تجربگی‌هایی بوده است که ممکن است اتفاق افتاده باشد که البته با توجه به شرایطی که امروز در جامعه‌ی ایران شاهدش هستیم در دولت نهم، من فکر می‌کنم خیلی بحث از بی‌تجربگی و بی‌کفایتی‌ها معنی پیدا نمی‌کند، چون مجموعه دولت نهم به این سمت دارد پیش می‌رود. من فکر می‌کنم ایشان منظورشان جوان‌گرایی نبوده است، چون در هر ملاقات و صحبتی که با آقای کروبی داشتیم بر لزوم جوان‌گرایی تاکید می‌کردند و این که جوانان محرک و به هرحال نیروی اصلی اصلاح‌طلبان هستند برای حضور در صحنه. من فکر می‌کنم منظور ایشان از جوان‌گرایی بیشتر بحث بی‌تجربگی‌هایی بوده که ممکن است اتفاق بیفتد و البته چون در فضای امروز ایران و بحث جوان‌گرایی که ويژه‌ی دولت نهم است، این‌جوری که ما می‌بینیم و مطرح شده، احتمالا ایشان در این بحث بیشتر منظورشان دولت نهم و جوان‌گرایی دولت نهم بوده است که کارایی لازم را ندارد.

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Comments (1811)

جشنواره داستان کوتاه کوتاه:

اطلاعیه مهم دبیرخانه جشنواره داستان های کوتاه کوتاه "سرزمین مادری ما"
نظر به استقبال گسترده و ارسال داستان های کوتاه کوتاه از سراسر کشور به دبیرخانه جشنواره داستان های کوتاه کوتاه "سرزمین مادری ما"، و با توجه به زمان اعلام شده برگزاری این جشنواره در 31 شهریور ماه 86 (روز گفت و گوی تمدنها)، دبیرخانه این جشنواره با عنایت به درخواست داستان نویسان مبنی بر تغییر زمان برگزاری این جشنواره و عدم تقارن با ماه مبارک رمضان، این جشنواره را در روز 5شنبه 29 آذرماه (به میمنت بلندترین شب سال "شب یلدا") برگزار خواهد کرد. همچنین مهلت ارسال آثار تا روز 5شنبه 15 آذر ماه تمدید شد.

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Posted by جشنواره داستان کوتاه کوتاه | August 29, 2007 11:52 PM

Posted on August 29, 2007 23:52

Anonymous:

با درود به شما.
با توجه به متنی که شما نوشتید و مصاحبه ی آقای کروبی آیا می توان به ائتلاف اصلاح طلبان با حزب اعتماد ملی امیدوار بود؟
هر چند این سخنان تند به نظر می رسند ولی نشان از افرادی دارد که در این حزب هستند و طرز تفکرشان پس اصلاح طلبان برای ائتلاف باید دنبال راهی مشترک باشند.
البته شایعات نیز نقش مخربی دارند که باید جلوی آن ها را گرفت.

Posted by Anonymous | August 31, 2007 10:31 PM

Posted on August 31, 2007 22:31

s:

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آقا این حرف ها نیست! کاش اندکی از عقل و متانت عسگراولادی را این شیخ گرامی داشت!! شما هم بهتر بود مثل دیگر دوستانتان سکوت می کردید و ماله کشی نمی فرمودید.
البته می دانم که نازه به ریاست رسیده اید و میلتان به مصاحبه زیاد است.

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